And some of us here in the U.S. had family members that helped to liberate several of the concentration camps when they spent four years fighting against Germany in WW2 and other family members and friends who were born there and were lucky enough to survive and tell their horror stories. As a matter of fact one of my very close friends came from Germany as a little girl when her Jewish father lost his business and most of his money but was lucky enough to get out before he and his family were put into one of the camps.
And I have never suggested that anyone, including Muslims, should give up their heritage, culture, religion, or anything else when they choose Canada as their homeland. What I do suggest is that, if push comes to shove, their *first* loyalty is to Canada, and at a very distant second must come one's race, culture, religion or anything else. If people who immigrate into Canada cannot adopt the attitude that their first loyalty is to Canada, then I for one, hope they leave this wonderful country and go back to where they came from. Because of the international terrorism that is now being practiced by some Muslims, for Muslims in Canada, push *has* come to shove. What I expect of them is that they put their loyalty to Canada first. Luckily this message seems to have struck a chord in our Muslim community, and most of our Muslims are now *saying* the right things. I hope actions follow words, and that some time in the not to far distant future Ann McLelland (?sp) our Deputy Prime Minister and head of the Department of National Security, or some such name, can rise in the House of Commons and announce that in her opinion, there is almost no danger from Al Qaeda sleeper cells in Canada. I can always hope.
-- Jim Cripwell. From Canada. Land of the Key Bird. This creature of doom flies over the frozen tundra in winter, shrieking its dreaded call; "Key, Key, Key, Key rist but it's cold!!"
Oh you old crone ... crone?? - is that how you spell it? You old fart then - I know how to spell that. What makes you think you have the inside track on the hereafter? You're wrong wrong wrong ... I believe there was a conspiracy, so there. Stick that in your Honda and drive it! :-))
Nicole ! As i said before i am very sorry i can`t start a long discussion with you [ some people will tell to bless your luck], as in 4 hours i will leave , and won`t have computer connection for 12 days. And when i am back i will join the discussion , but for a time will be busy with preprations to visit the Artists i invited to join an exhibition.
Excuse me ???? you accused me of having no consideration for the lot of some Germans. I know Many Germans , in various positions. Some as Life long aquaintances, some as Party or Ideological Colleagues of some of My Family members, Some as artists , some as Reserachers [in Holocaust research]. you haven`t been here long enough to know that i am writing now a book about 1942-45 documents. And i work besides reserearches many of whom survived 1-3 Gettoes , or some concentrartion camps . I have Asked many a German Holocaust researcher [ professor who teach in Germany, Memorial museums , Directors of Concentration Camps Museums , just about this fact ,, They all said , Membership was not compulsry , and NOBODY was sent to a concentration camp for refusing to become a party member!!!!! In September in Our Next internnational 'Women In The Holocaust" , i will ask again all the lectureres who will come from Germany. I also went and checked some encyclpedias ,,,
As i wrote above ,, yes i do have contacts with Germans who lived at the time , but of course i have contact and Live amongst many Non Germans who lived at the times , And acn tell you some facts.
For me it isn`t 2 generations past ,,, i am a Holocaust child surviver. mirjam
Maybe Nicole i should also tell you ,,,that i have here before me ,, Official Red Cross Death anouncements , stating that my motther parents [both in their 40th ] and her Sisters 17 & 19 were transported to Auschwitz , in the "Judentransport aus den Niederlanden" [ i can give you the exact blatt [page] as well. where they were Vergassed this is in Dutch , but i don`t think you need a translation ...i have more papers , official German papers for my other Grandmaother who did Slave work for them [Threseinstadt] So don`t tell me i took your words out of context. i think i was more than polite to you . mirjam
I remember as a kid thinking it was normal to get up every night, don my siren suit and repair to the shelter. I remember thinking it was normal for my brother and I to go out and hunt for shrapnel (from the bombs the night before) to add to our collection. I remember my grandmother giving me hell for lying (until she was convinced) that there was an unexploded bomb in our garden, near my swing.
I remember how many of my fellow school mates were fatherless and how many lost various other relatives in the war.
I remember how it was 'normal' that an incendiary came through the roof just a short span from my bedroom and went through the floor and into the lower floor, causing a fire.
David, my husband, always remembered the shock of coming out from the shelter to see his home was gone, including his beloved piano. He also remembered my MILs grief that most of her sisters died in a direct hit on a pub where there was a family wedding. My MIL had not attended as my youngest BIL was a baby and she (by law) had to have his gas mask with her, the gas mask for a baby resembled an iron lung and was just as awkward to carry, hence she skipped the wedding and lived.
In case I forget, my gas mask is hanging yet in my storage closet.
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote: I have Asked many a German Holocaust researcher
Must interject here. My ex-father-in-law was German. A scientist who escaped Nazi Germany and brought secrets with him. He risked his and his families life and was one of the last families to leave Germany on a ship bound for England.
He talked very little about his experiences, preferring to keep his memories to himself.
What he DID say was that you either went along or were imprisoned or worse. The Nazi's took away his family's fortune - which was considerable, including diamond mines.
Not everyone who felt as he was able to get out of Germany. Those who couldn't escape had to keep as low profile as possible.
Dianne, in trying to understand it all I have come down to this. If you live in a small town (as I do) and daily there were trains passing by full of people that came back empty and then returned with more people, after awhile, would you not have realized what must be happening ?
Food was scarce for all during the war, how were these people who were at the other end of the line being fed ? Word must have filtered out about bodies and mass burials. Yet nobody did anything. I believe, and hope, that were I witness to something like that, I would have demanded answers. If enough people demanded answers, local big wigs could not have controlled the situation. So I posit that German people, for whatever reason, allowed an awful lot of stuff to happen.
Frankly, it's no good them telling me now 'oh well, it was a question of fear of my life' - some things count more than one's own personal life and in my opinion, when the time for reckoning came, the German people failed, miserably, and if they still feel they are being blamed for it now, too bloody bad. Harsh ? Maybe but not as harsh as them ignoring what was going on.
This supposes that someone in town (who wasn't "in on it") had the time to be standing there watching the trains to KNOW that they were full inbound and empty outbound.
I have a train track 4 blocks from me. I don't hear the trains unless I'm being really quiet and they're blowing their horns. You're pre-supposing either that the entire town hears the trains, or that the people along the train tracks have nothing better to do with their time than to watch every train.
I have no idea what is on those trains or where they're going. Yes, the possibility exists that they're pulling into the Union Pacific yard a bit north of me and unloading, but the possibility also exists that they're going to Redding or even to Oregon (or maybe even Canada) before they unload. I have no way of knowing their destination just from standing next to the tracks watching. Similarly, the folks a few miles this side of may have assumed that those trains were bound for Russia, and had no way of knowing that they were not.
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