I expect that many of you will have heard that the suspected bomber who was shot dead by the police was thought to be innocent.
Today it transpires that - aside from running when told to stop by armed police (reason enough to be shot in view of the current circumstances)- he had outstayed his visa, and had been being watched by police for several days as, for some reason, his name and address had been discovered in one of the unexploded backpack bombs.
Pat P
HMMMM -- doesn't sound too terribly innocent to me. Of course, guilty is one thing shot dead is another. Then again, I am one of those who feel that if you knowingly run from ARMED law enforcement officers
**after** being told to stop, you are just asking to be shot! Considering what was found out about him, maybe he thought shot & killed was a lot better than being arrested for complicity in the bombings. If any of this mans family or "supporters" is looking for sympathy, they can find it in the dictionary between shit and syphilis!!! CiaoMeow >^;;^<X-No-Archive: yes "Tia Mary" wrote
Always supposing you know who they are and comprehend what they are saying, or what you are being asked to do. I understand in this case the police were not in uniform.
A few years ago,on this side of the pond, a young man who was visiting from somewhere in Asia (Korea, IIRC) to improve his english, was shot dead by police. I don't remember all the details but they insisted that he was acting suspiciously (apparently he was lost and was subsequently thought to have been trying to see house numbers), that they'd told him to stop and that he hadn't. Turns out that what they said was "freeze". He obviously didn't know what that meant and lost his life because of it.
It's very easy for us to assume things about people....
Besides, if you'd grown up in certain countries and someone (or several) started running after you with a gun, what do you think you'd do?
emerald
emerald wrote: meant and lost his life because of it.
I think that this is a very good point. Also, in some countries, the police are NOT what we are accustomed to in the West...
Catherine K.
AHH but you see, this person wasn't IN another country -- he was in the UK. If I go to another country to live, I am expected to live by the standards of that other country. He was living in the UK so he, by God, had best be able to live by the standards of the UK. This means being able to understand that an ARMED officer of the law might just possibly SHOOT you. If the law enforcement guy is yelling at you, it means you had better STOP -- and I don't give a tinker's dam if it isn't that way in some other country. MY heart is sad for the poor Muslims living in other countries who DO abide by the laws and are still getting the short end of the stick because of what their more fanatic members have brought upon the entire group! NO WAY do I believe that fool didn't understand the police -- more like he knew what the police were saying and though -- justifiably so -- that the weak kneed Westerners wouldn't shoot. It's time the
***fanatics*** who are causing all the trouble learn that we (generic Western Culture) are done being namby-pambies who will forgive those poor souls because they are who they are! CiaoMeow >^;;^<Tia Mary ( snipped-for-privacy@aol.com) writes: (snip)
If just abiding by laws and not putting the country first is good enough for Queeeebecers it should be good enough for Muslims!
IMHO the **separest sleeper cells** in Queeeeebec and the **bloc* poses a far more serious threat to the country than any Muslim!
I have absolutely no fear **what-so-ever** from the Muslim community!
Fred
When uncivilized individuals, their supporters, copycats, or those disregarding law and order are bent on uncivilized JUNGLE WARFARE the smartest gorilla with the biggest stick is going to keep its' bananas.
My hat's off to your police!
Fred
Basically this young man was being chased by a mob of men in casual wear and guns! Hello? I'd run for my life aswell!
The thing is: He didn't do anything that justifies _some guy without a uniform_ executing him with _5_ (five) bullets. That should just never ever happen.
Just imagine what it would be like if your son had been chased by armed men _who were not wearing any uniform_ and _who did not show him a badge or any other form of ID_. Would you still think "They just did their job so that's fine." I really doubt it.
I think it's outrageous that all of a sudden it's perfectly ok to kill someone who didn't do anything that justifies shooting him. And I'm not even going to talk about the "Then today our unbelievable P.M. actually APOLOGISES to his family!" Pat wrote.
cu nicole
I read an account, this morning, of the actual events - which might surprise many of you as we talk about this case without knowing what took place.
The man was overtaken and pinned down and THEN shot in the head. The reason was that they thought he had bombs in his vest and didn't want to shoot in the torso. The police were literally worried about bombs under his garments.
Now, this is an account from USAToday. I cannot vouch for its accuracy. But it certainly puts a different light on it.
Dianne
Tia Mary wrote:
F.James Cripwell wrote: they need to feel they belong to
I'm not trying to start a flame war, but please be careful of your wording. I can't be the only one who is troubled by this remark.
If we are talking about religion/spirituality, I know MANY people (myself included) who identify themselves as Christians or Jews first, and Americans (or whatever nationality) second. I can't imagine that a Muslim or person of any other spiritual following would feel any differently.
I think I know what you were trying to say, but it wasn't quite what you did say.
respectfully, Sue
NL wrote:
The thing is, just HOW MANY times do mobs of armed men who are not law enforcement officers chase an innocent person through a PUBLIC place (train station I think)? The Mafia doesn't operate like that anymore so if a mob of armed men in civilian clothes were chasing me through a PUBLIC TRAIN STATION yelling at me to stop, then you better believe I would stop. Are you forgetting that it is SUMMER, it was HOT, HOT, HOT the day this happened and this person was apparently skulking through said PUBLIC train station in a HEAVY COAT. HMMM, now just WHAT type of young man skulks through PUBLIC places in HOT summer weather wearing a HEAVY COAT? Let's see -- TERRORISTS who quite often have bombs strapped to themselves!! THAT is the reason the guy was shot when he didn't stop. As Pat posted, the officers were afraid the guy had a bomb strapped to himself (a quite likely possibility) and that he would set it off and kill loads more people. You have to remember the circumstances in the UK that day. There had already been MULTIPLE terrorist bombings that killed a LOT of people. I can guarantee you that if the law enforcement guys hadn't shot the runner and that guy and if the guy had had a bomb on him that he set off, then you and everyone else would be screaming about it. Everyone would want to know WHY the cops didn't stop the suspicious looking guy who ended up being a terrorist. As for "if it was my son" -- I doubt if any son of mine would be a terrorist OR be associated with terrorists as the guy who was shot was. As for it being OK to shoot the guy -- of course it's OK -- he was told to STOP by law enforcement people and he didn't stop. He looked
**extremely** suspicious and was acting in a suspicious manner at a time when ALL the people living in the UK (regardless of their ethnicity) know that law enforcement is at an all time high. He didn't stop when told to so BAM -- he gets shot and gets to go to his heaven.X-No-Archive: yes
Exactly.
emerald
In Brazil? I have no idea....
So what? Maybe he had a cold? Maybe that's what he wore when he went out at 3a.m. because he couldn't sleep and after staying at a friends or whatever that's what he wore when he hopped on the train to get home.
Is it OK to shoot someonw just because he's wearing the _wrong kind of clothing_ ?!
People who aren't aware that wearing a coat can now justify shooting you?
But that doesn't make killing an innocent person right. It makes it understandable, but not RIGHT.
What if your son had been there, wearing a winter coat because of god knows what? This young man was not a terrorist.
Just for the record: Most citizens of brazil are catholic, so it's probably your heaven he went to...
cu nicole
Not if you lived in a city where there are frequent gang attacks and had recently been attacked by a gang, you wouldn't.
He wasn't skulking through the train station. He had been followed from his apartment and ran into the train station when he realized he was being followed.
I can't even believe how far you are stretching to justify this. The police have admitted that this was a tragic mistake. Why would you try to justify an action that even the actors admit shouldn't have happened?
Apparently his only association was that he lived in an apartment in a building that matched an address in one of terrorist's back backpacks. The police have admitted that they failed to realize that there were more than one apartment in the building.
How convenient to believe in heaven if it allows you to justify killing people. I've been reading your posts for years, Tia Mary, and am just shocked by the level of callousness you are showing here. Have you decided that you hate Muslims so much that now it's ok to shoot people who look Muslim (the man was Brazilian) without any regard for their rights? Heaven help all of us who wish to live in a democracy if most people start to feel like you.
Elizabeth
. Pat and Tia Mary even if he acated suspicious, 5 shots in the head seem a bit Odd ,,," Stand still!" sounds less known all over the world than plain STOP . But NONE of Us was there. {and i hope that next time anyone of you judges our behavuour towards a living Ticking Bomb [ a person suspected to wear a bomb]. You might remember how your police reacted. We might assume that he could be hard hearing or didn`t know English., but none of us knows. .. Our forces ask people to Raise their shirts , and show t0heir stomachs ,,, many people in the west thought this was Not respectful , but it saved many lives, including those of some 100s of the possible suiciders who now reside in a nice prison. The people on the spot are those who have to make the decisions and than explain it to the authrities. This people born and bred in UK , and still grudge enough to kill. You have had now 2 attempts in a week ,,,, we have 2 or more every night and day.
Not all immigrants know how the Laws of their New country are. Authorities should Teach or lecture or give pamphlets in all languages. >> had best be able to live by the standards of the UK. This means not al imigrants can live by the New standards , they fled to UK , for economic reasons , not to let go of their values.
Yes and when you see an armed man running after you , you might not react with logic. Fear is a bad teacher . Do you Pat know how you wil react when shot at ???? or when you see a gun pointed at you ... you might panic , for what ever reason and RUN.
There are countries were Uniformed man shoot all ... for various reasons . English cops used to have a name of NOt being armed.
You don`t know that , and it is an assumption , as good as any other.
But that is the Whole point of Being a Fanatic !!!! His Interpretation of His God`s words are Higher authority than Any Human words , esp those of an other belief....
Unless , Pat as i said You believe in a Higher Authority than an earthly one !!!
A shot doesn`t always trigger a bomb , it is the suicider Finger on the trigger that is dangerous.
As i told you before , any thing looking Out of place should be checked ....
As i understood they stood Over him while he was on the ground , and shot him , which shows you they knew their shots won`t trigger the bomb.
I hope that soon your police will start checking bags etc in train stations !!! Be safe ,,, mirjam
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